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Giacomo1968
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The original poster’s question that this meta discussion is in reference to is too broad and too idiosyncratic. The “morality” is not an issue.

This is a canard of a question. Asking how to get around a block is one thing. That question in particular comes from someone who doesn’t understand—or wants to admit—they were blocked due to scraping activities, they clearly barely understand how an external IP address is used and—even if they followed the generic advice on how to get around a block—they will most likely still get block again.

If someone engages in behavior that “punishes” them in some way from they way a particular website manages access we cannot help them. They are in over their heads and believe they are entitled to things just because… And that should not be supported.

Not a question of “morality” as much as an issue of why waste any time dealing with a question so broad and idiosyncratic.

And to address this aspect of your question:

“…what if it was someone in Turkey trying to access Wikipedia for example, should we help them then?”

The question as you pose it is too broad and implies that somehow the folks here on Super User—other Stack Exchange sites—would somehow be biased against answering a question like this. Here is the issue with the straw man you present:

  1. Being Able to Post Here Indicates Some Internet Freedom: Someone who can access Stack Exchange sites should not be blocked from sites like Wikipedia. Yes, this is arbitrary and based on how different countries deal with National “firewalls” but it is fairly safe to assume that merely being able to post here is an indication that the poster should have some rudimentary access to the Internet that is not filtered oppressively.
  2. Don’t Think Someone is Helpless in an Oppressive Country: While someone might live in an oppressive country, it does not mean they are completely helpless. Famously there is the “Great Firewall of China” right? Guess how many people in China know what a VPN is on some level? Far more than you think.
  3. Given the Above, Someone Asking for non-VPN Ways of Getting Around a Block are Not Going to Get an Answer: Okay, so someone lives in an oppressive country. Their Internet is screwed. Chances are good they know what a VPN is but, guess what? They might not want to purchase access or share VPN access with someone else. If that is the case, nothing can help them. It will be an endless discussion of “But what if I do this?” and “But what if I do that?” and at the end of the day all of these “great” ideas are things the original poster could do without asking any of us for permission. So the fact they are persistently asking us for—what can only be described as—magic is a big indication that the question cannot be answered.

At the end of the day one can only help people who are willing to help themselves.

And circling back to the specific question, if someone knows they have been banned from scraping a site, and they know if they simply “asked” for help they would be lucky to get a response and they are stubbornly insisting that we provide them with a way to scrape a site that has banned them using the logic that it isn’t “illegal”… Well, we can’t help them.

If someone got kicked out of a bar for behaving badly and they were blocked from using the front entrance, what good will it do for anyone if they asked a patron to just open a back door or window to let them in? A fairly broad analogy, but the much larger question presented is what is the best way to scrape a site to avoid banning. And guess what? A question like that is too broad as well.

The original poster’s question is too broad and too idiosyncratic. The “morality” is not an issue.

This is a canard of a question. Asking how to get around a block is one thing. That question in particular comes from someone who doesn’t understand—or wants to admit—they were blocked due to scraping activities, they clearly barely understand how an external IP address is used and—even if they followed the generic advice on how to get around a block—they will most likely still get block again.

If someone engages in behavior that “punishes” them in some way from they way a particular website manages access we cannot help them. They are in over their heads and believe they are entitled to things just because… And that should not be supported.

Not a question of “morality” as much as an issue of why waste any time dealing with a question so broad and idiosyncratic.

And to address this aspect of your question:

“…what if it was someone in Turkey trying to access Wikipedia for example, should we help them then?”

The question as you pose it is too broad and implies that somehow the folks here on Super User—other Stack Exchange sites—would somehow be biased against answering a question like this. Here is the issue with the straw man you present:

  1. Being Able to Post Here Indicates Some Internet Freedom: Someone who can access Stack Exchange sites should not be blocked from sites like Wikipedia. Yes, this is arbitrary and based on how different countries deal with National “firewalls” but it is fairly safe to assume that merely being able to post here is an indication that the poster should have some rudimentary access to the Internet that is not filtered oppressively.
  2. Don’t Think Someone is Helpless in an Oppressive Country: While someone might live in an oppressive country, it does not mean they are completely helpless. Famously there is the “Great Firewall of China” right? Guess how many people in China know what a VPN is on some level? Far more than you think.
  3. Given the Above, Someone Asking for non-VPN Ways of Getting Around a Block are Not Going to Get an Answer: Okay, so someone lives in an oppressive country. Their Internet is screwed. Chances are good they know what a VPN is but, guess what? They might not want to purchase access or share VPN access with someone else. If that is the case, nothing can help them. It will be an endless discussion of “But what if I do this?” and “But what if I do that?” and at the end of the day all of these “great” ideas are things the original poster could do without asking any of us for permission. So the fact they are persistently asking us for—what can only be described as—magic is a big indication that the question cannot be answered.

At the end of the day one can only help people who are willing to help themselves.

And circling back to the specific question, if someone knows they have been banned from scraping a site, and they know if they simply “asked” for help they would be lucky to get a response and they are stubbornly insisting that we provide them with a way to scrape a site that has banned them using the logic that it isn’t “illegal”… Well, we can’t help them.

If someone got kicked out of a bar for behaving badly and they were blocked from using the front entrance, what good will it do for anyone if they asked a patron to just open a back door or window to let them in? A fairly broad analogy, but the much larger question presented is what is the best way to scrape a site to avoid banning. And guess what? A question like that is too broad as well.

The original poster’s question that this meta discussion is in reference to is too broad and too idiosyncratic. The “morality” is not an issue.

This is a canard of a question. Asking how to get around a block is one thing. That question in particular comes from someone who doesn’t understand—or wants to admit—they were blocked due to scraping activities, they clearly barely understand how an external IP address is used and—even if they followed the generic advice on how to get around a block—they will most likely still get block again.

If someone engages in behavior that “punishes” them in some way from they way a particular website manages access we cannot help them. They are in over their heads and believe they are entitled to things just because… And that should not be supported.

Not a question of “morality” as much as an issue of why waste any time dealing with a question so broad and idiosyncratic.

And to address this aspect of your question:

“…what if it was someone in Turkey trying to access Wikipedia for example, should we help them then?”

The question as you pose it is too broad and implies that somehow the folks here on Super User—other Stack Exchange sites—would somehow be biased against answering a question like this. Here is the issue with the straw man you present:

  1. Being Able to Post Here Indicates Some Internet Freedom: Someone who can access Stack Exchange sites should not be blocked from sites like Wikipedia. Yes, this is arbitrary and based on how different countries deal with National “firewalls” but it is fairly safe to assume that merely being able to post here is an indication that the poster should have some rudimentary access to the Internet that is not filtered oppressively.
  2. Don’t Think Someone is Helpless in an Oppressive Country: While someone might live in an oppressive country, it does not mean they are completely helpless. Famously there is the “Great Firewall of China” right? Guess how many people in China know what a VPN is on some level? Far more than you think.
  3. Given the Above, Someone Asking for non-VPN Ways of Getting Around a Block are Not Going to Get an Answer: Okay, so someone lives in an oppressive country. Their Internet is screwed. Chances are good they know what a VPN is but, guess what? They might not want to purchase access or share VPN access with someone else. If that is the case, nothing can help them. It will be an endless discussion of “But what if I do this?” and “But what if I do that?” and at the end of the day all of these “great” ideas are things the original poster could do without asking any of us for permission. So the fact they are persistently asking us for—what can only be described as—magic is a big indication that the question cannot be answered.

At the end of the day one can only help people who are willing to help themselves.

And circling back to the specific question, if someone knows they have been banned from scraping a site, and they know if they simply “asked” for help they would be lucky to get a response and they are stubbornly insisting that we provide them with a way to scrape a site that has banned them using the logic that it isn’t “illegal”… Well, we can’t help them.

If someone got kicked out of a bar for behaving badly and they were blocked from using the front entrance, what good will it do for anyone if they asked a patron to just open a back door or window to let them in? A fairly broad analogy, but the much larger question presented is what is the best way to scrape a site to avoid banning. And guess what? A question like that is too broad as well.

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Giacomo1968
  • 56.8k
  • 22
  • 26

The original poster’s question is too broad and too idiosyncratic. The “morality” is not an issue.

This is a canard of a question. Asking how to get around a block is one thing. That question in particular comes from someone who doesn’t understand—or wants to admit—they were blocked due to scraping activities, they clearly barely understand how an external IP address is used and—even if they followed the generic advice on how to get around a block—they will most likely still get block again.

If someone engages in behavior that “punishes” them in some way from they way a particular website manages access we cannot help them. They are in over their heads and believe they are entitled to things just because… And that should not be supported.

Not a question of “morality” as much as an issue of why waste any time dealing with a question so broad and idiosyncratic.

And to address this aspect of your question:

“…what if it was someone in Turkey trying to access Wikipedia for example, should we help them then?”

The question as you pose it is too broad and implies that somehow the folks here on Super User—other Stack Exchange sites—would somehow be biased against answering a question like this. Here is the issue with the straw man you present:

  1. Being Able to Post Here Indicates Some Internet Freedom: Someone who can access Stack Exchange sites should not be blocked from sites like Wikipedia. Yes, this is arbitrary and based on how different countries deal with National “firewalls” but it is fairly safe to assume that merely being able to post here is an indication that the poster should have some rudimentary access to the Internet that is not filtered oppressively.
  2. Don’t Think Someone is Helpless in an Oppressive Country: While someone might live in an oppressive country, it does not mean they are completely helpless. Famously there is the “Great Firewall of China” right? Guess how many people in China know what a VPN is on some level? Far more than you think.
  3. Given the Above, Someone Asking for non-VPN Ways of Getting Around a Block are Not Going to Get an Answer: Okay, so someone lives in an oppressive country. Their Internet is screwed. Chances are good they know what a VPN is but, guess what? They might not want to purchase access or share VPN access with someone else. If that is the case, nothing can help them. It will be an endless discussion of “But what if I do this?” and “But what if I do that?” and at the end of the day all of these “great” ideas are things the original poster could do without asking any of us for permission. So the fact they are persistently asking us for—what can only be described as—magic is a big indication that the question cannot be answered.

At the end of the day one can only help people who are willing to help themselves.

And circling back to the specific question, if someone knows they have been banned from scraping a site, and they know if they simply “asked” for help they would be lucky to get a response and they are stubbornly insisting that we provide them with a way to scrape a site that has banned them using the logic that it isn’t “illegal”… Well, we can’t help them.

If someone got kicked out of a bar for behaving badly and they were blocked from using the front entrance, what good will it do for anyone if they asked a patron to just open a back door or window to let them in? A fairly broad analogy, but the much larger question presented is what is the best way to scrape a site to avoid banning. And guess what? A question like that is too broad as well.

The original poster’s question is too broad and too idiosyncratic. The “morality” is not an issue.

This is a canard of a question. Asking how to get around a block is one thing. That question in particular comes from someone who doesn’t understand—or wants to admit—they were blocked due to scraping activities, they clearly barely understand how an external IP address is used and—even if they followed the generic advice on how to get around a block—they will most likely still get block again.

If someone engages in behavior that “punishes” them in some way from they way a particular website manages access we cannot help them. They are in over their heads and believe they are entitled to things just because… And that should not be supported.

Not a question of “morality” as much as an issue of why waste any time dealing with a question so broad and idiosyncratic.

The original poster’s question is too broad and too idiosyncratic. The “morality” is not an issue.

This is a canard of a question. Asking how to get around a block is one thing. That question in particular comes from someone who doesn’t understand—or wants to admit—they were blocked due to scraping activities, they clearly barely understand how an external IP address is used and—even if they followed the generic advice on how to get around a block—they will most likely still get block again.

If someone engages in behavior that “punishes” them in some way from they way a particular website manages access we cannot help them. They are in over their heads and believe they are entitled to things just because… And that should not be supported.

Not a question of “morality” as much as an issue of why waste any time dealing with a question so broad and idiosyncratic.

And to address this aspect of your question:

“…what if it was someone in Turkey trying to access Wikipedia for example, should we help them then?”

The question as you pose it is too broad and implies that somehow the folks here on Super User—other Stack Exchange sites—would somehow be biased against answering a question like this. Here is the issue with the straw man you present:

  1. Being Able to Post Here Indicates Some Internet Freedom: Someone who can access Stack Exchange sites should not be blocked from sites like Wikipedia. Yes, this is arbitrary and based on how different countries deal with National “firewalls” but it is fairly safe to assume that merely being able to post here is an indication that the poster should have some rudimentary access to the Internet that is not filtered oppressively.
  2. Don’t Think Someone is Helpless in an Oppressive Country: While someone might live in an oppressive country, it does not mean they are completely helpless. Famously there is the “Great Firewall of China” right? Guess how many people in China know what a VPN is on some level? Far more than you think.
  3. Given the Above, Someone Asking for non-VPN Ways of Getting Around a Block are Not Going to Get an Answer: Okay, so someone lives in an oppressive country. Their Internet is screwed. Chances are good they know what a VPN is but, guess what? They might not want to purchase access or share VPN access with someone else. If that is the case, nothing can help them. It will be an endless discussion of “But what if I do this?” and “But what if I do that?” and at the end of the day all of these “great” ideas are things the original poster could do without asking any of us for permission. So the fact they are persistently asking us for—what can only be described as—magic is a big indication that the question cannot be answered.

At the end of the day one can only help people who are willing to help themselves.

And circling back to the specific question, if someone knows they have been banned from scraping a site, and they know if they simply “asked” for help they would be lucky to get a response and they are stubbornly insisting that we provide them with a way to scrape a site that has banned them using the logic that it isn’t “illegal”… Well, we can’t help them.

If someone got kicked out of a bar for behaving badly and they were blocked from using the front entrance, what good will it do for anyone if they asked a patron to just open a back door or window to let them in? A fairly broad analogy, but the much larger question presented is what is the best way to scrape a site to avoid banning. And guess what? A question like that is too broad as well.

added 65 characters in body
Source Link
Giacomo1968
  • 56.8k
  • 22
  • 26

The original poster’s question is too broad and too idiosyncratic. The “morality” is not an issue.

This is a canardcanard of a question. Asking how to get around a block is one thing. That question in particular comes from someone who doesn’t understand—or wants to admit—they were blocked due to scraping activities, they clearly barely understand how an external IP address is used and—even if they followed the generic advice on how to get around a block—they will most likely still get block again.

If someone engages in behavior that “punishes” them in some way from they way a particular website manages access we cannot help them. They are in over their heads and believe they are entitled to things just because… And that should not be supported.

Not a question of “morality” as much as an issue of why waste any time dealing with a question so broad and idiosyncratic.

The original poster’s question is too broad and too idiosyncratic. The “morality” is not an issue.

This is a canard of a question. Asking how to get around a block is one thing. That question in particular comes from someone who doesn’t understand—or wants to admit—they were blocked due to scraping activities, they clearly barely understand how an external IP address is used and—even if they followed the generic advice on how to get around a block—they will most likely still get block again.

If someone engages in behavior that “punishes” them in some way from they way a particular website manages access we cannot help them. They are in over their heads and believe they are entitled to things just because… And that should not be supported.

Not a question of “morality” as much as an issue of why waste any time dealing with a question so broad and idiosyncratic.

The original poster’s question is too broad and too idiosyncratic. The “morality” is not an issue.

This is a canard of a question. Asking how to get around a block is one thing. That question in particular comes from someone who doesn’t understand—or wants to admit—they were blocked due to scraping activities, they clearly barely understand how an external IP address is used and—even if they followed the generic advice on how to get around a block—they will most likely still get block again.

If someone engages in behavior that “punishes” them in some way from they way a particular website manages access we cannot help them. They are in over their heads and believe they are entitled to things just because… And that should not be supported.

Not a question of “morality” as much as an issue of why waste any time dealing with a question so broad and idiosyncratic.

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Giacomo1968
  • 56.8k
  • 22
  • 26
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