We have bad question closing habits

Question

Not all of us and not all the time, of course, and I'm sometimes guilty of this too. I don't want to point the finger at anyone - just discuss what I think is a problem and how we can improve. The examples I use below are just some random recent cases that illustrate my point.

We are sometimes trigger-happy with the Close button. Hear me out.

Case 1

How packets are delivered from server to local network?

The reason for closure:

This question is off-topic.

Questions seeking product, service, or learning material recommendations are off-topic because they become outdated quickly and attract opinion-based answers. Instead, describe your situation and the specific problem you're trying to solve. Share your research. Here are a few suggestions on how to properly ask this type of question.

• Is this question seeking product, service, or learning material recommendations? No.
• Otherwise off-topic, opinion-based or gets outdated quickly? No: it's within scope of the site, not opinion-based and the tech it's about is commonplace and has been in use for decades.
• The problem is clear? Yes.
• Shows effort ("share your research")? To some extent: "I learned that when packets go out from the local network, the source address is translated into a public address". Sounds like OP is actively trying to understand this, but a piece of the puzzle is missing and they want us to clarify it with focus on this particular aspect. Maybe someone could want to ask for clarification in the comments, but I can see myself posting a useful answer that could help them connect the dots.
• The link at the end is only applicable to software recommendations.

I honestly can't see how this question is off-topic. It's probably a duplicate, but I'm no good at finding these and I can understand OP not finding anything too. What I can see here is a well-meaning person coming here to learn and being given an unhelpful "NO ANSWERS FOR YOU" without any good reason.

Case 2

Computer cutting off downloads from certain sites.

This question needs details or clarity.

Add details and clarify the problem being solved. This will help others answer the question.

• Does the question lack clarity? No. The issue is clearly explained. Some capitals are missing here and there, but it's perfectly legible.

• Does it lack details? Maybe. OP narrowed the problem to a couple sites and even to a particular file type: "Whenever I try to download files from certain sites, such as cloudconvert, google drive and solidfiles. This appears to be a problem only with rar files". They have added that they're on macOS.

  What's missing is info about their OS version and browser, but they don't know that. It's not a case of a user giving us nothing to work with and hoping that our crystal ball has the answer (anyone who's been here for a while knows this type of questions). They have put their effort into providing information that they thought is necessary. They don't have the knowledge we SU veterans have, that's why they came here for help. If this question deserved to be closed, then an explanation on how it should be improved should've been provided in comments. Otherwise it's just unhelpful denial of providing help with no direction where to go. It's not a case of them wasting our time, it's us wasting their time.

Case 3

Some users think that mentioning any programs in questions is banned, no exceptions. It's an extreme case, of course, and it's incorrect and absurd, but I think it's cases like this that lead them to such conclusions:

Two Headsets in one Discord

Not closed! But the comments:

Person A: "Is there any software on windows that will allow multiple microphones to be mixed to one input device" with that quoted, it's off-topic here.

Person B: I agree, glazed over that sentence

Here's how the question looked before edit:

The situation is - I got two people sharing one room and only one PC that is running discord. Both should be able to talk and hear discord. Is there any software on windows that will allow multiple microphones to be mixed to one input device that can be used in discord?

I’m aware of Loopback on Mac that can achieve such a thing but I’m drawing a blank for Windows.

and here's how it was salvaged:

Is there any software on way in windows that will allow […]

To put it shortly: if such a minor change in wording made it not a software-rec question, was it ever a software-rec question?

The question is about solving a problem that is presented more or less clearly. OP expects that this problem is solvable with 3rd party software, because that's how they solved it on a Mac, but I'm pretty sure they would be completely happy with a built-in OS feature if one existed. It's just a matter of unfortunate wording. IMO Person B glazed over that sentence because it just doesn't invalidate this otherwise fine question.

A good answer to this question would probably include a software recommendation and a guide on achieving what was asked, which strongly suggests that it's not so much about software as about a problem.

Let's go through the software-rec checklist from case 1:

• Is this question seeking product, service, or learning material recommendations? As I've explained it's actually seeking a solution to the presented problem, and implying that some product will be a part of that solution.
• Otherwise off-topic, opinion-based or gets outdated quickly? No: within scope, not opinion-based, won't get outdated more quickly than any other software-based answer.
• The problem is clear? Reasonably clear I would say.
• Shows effort ("share your research")? Well, OP could do better here.
• The link at the end: Well, give it a read. In a nutshell, questions should be problem-based, not software-based. Questions that ask for software that solves problems is allowed - there's even a header that reads "How to ask questions that may require a software solution".

I'm not saying this question is perfect - I'm saying that commenters wanted to close it due to a twitch reflex, rather than for a valid reason. In some cases there won't be a valid reason, but the reflex will work the same. And if it's a mod♦, that's it - the question gets closed.

Why are we here?

I believe the point of answering questions and participating in this community is to provide help and serve other people. With that in mind:

• Case 3.

  Wouldn't it be better to make that minor edit, rather than vote to close? If you don't have these couple extra seconds or are using a mobile device and it's inconvenient to edit, maybe it would be more helpful to resist the urge to VtC and let someone else make the edit? Would anything bad happen if no one edited it?

  Also: I think this question has potential to be helpful for other visitors. It would be great to make SU number 1 on Google for this problem. It doesn't seem like OP did any research, but other than that the question checks all the boxes. IMO it's good enough to keep it open even if it doesn't fit the guidelines perfectly. The point of guidelines is to instruct users how to ask good questions, but useful questions that don't follow the guidelines are still useful. Unless they are off-topic in the strict sense (first 3 bullet points), we may want to keep them open.

• Case 2.

  Closing unclear questions is okay. But ultimately we want to help people who ask them.

  Sure, if OP can't write a coherent sentence, it's a waste of time to decipher and answer their question. Even if someone has a similar problem, it's unlikely they will be able to realize it's the same problem (or even find the question).

  But if the question looks like some effort was put into it, be helpful and explain what information you need. Unlike you, OP isn't an expert - they may not know relevant stuff from noise nor understand how complex the issue is and what information is needed. Closing the question doesn't address this. It just leaves OP to themselves and prevents SU from gaining a useful question.

  IMO even "crystal ball" questions shouldn't be closed without a comment. Some people think computers are magic and we can magically devise a solution for their issue. They understand nothing and don't know what we need from them. It's us that have to tell them.

• Case 1.

  Finding duplicates can be hard. Many times I've been 100% sure a question was answered before, but I just couldn't find it. But if I can't find it, neither can OP and other people who have a similar question, so instead of closing with questionable reasons maybe it's better to leave it open, let someone write a good answer and hope that this one won't get lost?

  There's a large Polish electrical engineering forum that's infamous for getting first positions on Google with unanswered threads that are closed by mods because "this topic was discussed a thousand times, search for it". Well, here I am searching for it and getting their unhelpful posts. SU is technically superior because (I think) it's guiding Google away from closed questions and presenting duplicates as redirects, boosting their targets. Thus a duplicate closed with a bad reason is a wasted opportunity to promote a good question in search engines.

  And this - without leaving any explanatory comment - is just unhelpful:

  

  Am I missing something and it's actually a something-rec question? Is the moderator♦ disagreeing with my stance on using correct close reasons? Should I keep flagging stuff like this? I don't know. I can complain on meta (trying not to sound too petty), ignore it and keep making the same mistakes, or get frustrated and leave. (Please note that the comment with a potential duplicate was posted after the flag was rejected.)

Closing questions is easy, reopening them is not. I'm pretty sure closed questions get much less visitors than open ones, but the number of votes required to reopen is the same. Once a question is closed, it's often doomed to stay closed. People sometimes come here with sincere intention to learn something, but leave with a feeling of being unjustly judged. The "on hold closing" experiment may not have worked, but there was a reason for it, and no technical solution can make up for behaviors that feel hostile. I believe unwelcoming SU is not the kind of SU we're trying to build.

Maybe before clicking the Close button we should think twice what are we trying to achieve long-term and if it's actually serving our goals.

I'm sorry if I'm using a strong language or if any of you felt offended in any way. It was not my intention. I'm certainly not completely objective in my perception of the issue and I'm open to discussion… or at least I think so. The fact that I'm not a native speaker and may not get the tone of my language the same way as you do doesn't help either.

Answer 1

Closing questions is easy, reopening them is not.... Once a question is closed, it's often doomed to stay closed.

Strongly agree. And this presents an additional approach for those of us who curate/moderate here. When we vote to close a question, we should consider taking a few minutes to visit the "Reopen Votes" queue.

And when and if we do moderate through the "Close Votes" queue, please consider visiting "Reopen Votes" first.

Answer 2

Many Stack Exchange websites including SU are plagued with ill-informed close-votes. I believe one solution to mitigate this problem is having a “Vote not to close” option to counter the “Vote to close” before the question is closed, so that question viewers can counteract the deleterious ignorance/ineptitude of close-voters in such situations. Another reason behind this issue is that people casting incorrect votes face no consequences.

Closing questions is easy, reopening them is not.... Once a question is closed, it's often doomed to stay closed.

This is very clear from the stats: 2021: a year in closing.

Answer 3

Wikipedia has a AfD section that is used to decide whether to delete an article, it is functionally similar to close votes here. However, they have:

• AfD is not a Vote, reasons to Keep and Delete must be provided.

• Assume Good Faith,

  It is the assumption that editors' edits and comments are made in good faith – that is, the assumption that people are not deliberately trying to hurt Wikipedia, even when their actions are harmful.

• Do not bite the newcomers

  New members are prospective contributors and are therefore Wikipedia's most valuable resource. We must treat newcomers with kindness and patience—nothing scares potentially valuable contributors away faster than hostility. It is very unlikely for a newcomer to be completely familiar with Wikipedia's markup language and its myriad of policies, guidelines, and community standards when they start editing. Even the most experienced editors may need a gentle reminder from time to time.

I believe these three may be of use to the Stack Exchange community, especially those caught in excessive closing of questions.

Answer 4

Based on what I have seeing so far, I can't give an opinion about the closing habits in SU, but ...

     Closing questions doesn't interfere with providing help and serve people.

1. Users with rep >= 5 can post in Meta. If they need help with the reopening process beyond what could be handled in comments, they could make a post in Meta.
   Recent case barely related :
   • How to fix an unfocused post, that I thought was pretty well focused
     The OP has rep = 1. Their question was closed showing "needs more focus", but it's off-topic. This shows that an OP with low rep is able to post a question on Meta and receive help / be served.
2. Users with rep >= 21 (they should have earned 20) can participate in chat.
   • Super User mods (at least a couple of them) are frecuently active in the chat, and there is a chatroom about Super User moderation questions.
   • If they need help with the reopening process beyond what could be handled in comments, are in the mood for chatting and find the mods active in the Super User chatrooms, they might ask for guidance.
3. Closed questions can be commented by users with rep >=50
   • There are many users that might leave a comment into closed questions to help OP to improve their questions, help to learn the ropes of Super User, etc.
4. ...

---

I recently was pointed to this question. Regarding the three cases presented and others linked in comments, unfortunately some of them are now deleted and I haven't enough reputation to see deleted posts.

Case 1

I was able to see the Case 1. I think that it's not a good fit for this site and I'm a bit surprised that after 7 months it doesn't show any edit / update from the OP, it's still open and with a positive score.

The question isn't about solving specific problem, it's about "understanding someting". Regarding the research reported by the OP, IMHO it's too brief, there is no mention of any related SU post, there is no mention of any reference. While lenght is not a criteria to decide how to vote usually short questions comes from people that have a high understanding of a topic and that is noticiable by the words used and synthesis capacity shown, from people that didn't spend enough time searching / researching or from people who like to post "seed questions".

A seed question (aka conversation starter / ice-breaker) might be good for Area 51 proposals or a closed stage but not for beta / graduated site.

Case 2

It is deleted. I will skip commenting about this one.

Case 3

It's unfortunate that the question had some "misleading" comments, but it looks that the community have handled this case properly.