Timeline for Some issues with a recent action that was taken regarding the Root Access chat bot
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
40 events
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| Mar 20, 2017 at 10:32 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
replaced http://meta.stackexchange.com/ with https://meta.stackexchange.com/
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| Apr 23, 2014 at 13:35 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
Fixup of bad MSO links to MSE links migration
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| Apr 23, 2014 at 9:11 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
Migration of MSO links to MSE links
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| Nov 17, 2013 at 1:02 | comment | added | iConnor | I would -10 this if I could, 1. It's not spam. 2. you need to actually know what spam means before you say it. Here's a tip Electronic Spamming is the use of electronic messaging systems to send unsolicited bulk messages (spam) (Source), I don't see any bulk messages anywhere. | |
| Nov 13, 2013 at 1:34 | history | edited | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 465 characters in body
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| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:47 | comment | added | allquixotic | ...explain your opinion to me in a civil manner, and I apologize profusely if I came off as brusque or impatient. This is a fairly divisive issue, but I wish to harbor no hard feelings whatsoever toward you personally. Thanks. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:47 | comment | added | allquixotic | Anyway: I think this MSO question is going to end up being the battleground for this particular debate among the community (note that the debate is already effectively over because SE has made a final decision, so the only purpose in the question is to discuss among the community what people personally feel). I'm going there, so you may say whatever you like here, but I will likely not reply. Regardless of our difference of opinion, thank you for taking the time to (contd) | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:43 | comment | added | allquixotic |
I totally agree that this would be a huge problem if the bot made people feel more comfortable calling out users, to the point that people were going "oh hey @user901099024, why don't you change your default name to blah blah?". That NEVER happens. The only time we ping people as they enter the room is when they've been a participant in the past; and in that case, even if the bot weren't there, we'd ping them anyway when we saw them in the user list, as in, "Hey, @dude, what's up? Haven't seen you in a while!" (which I think is fair for someone who's actively participated in the past.)
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| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:41 | comment | added | allquixotic | Interesting though that you think it would possibly be a useful feature to add if SE did it, yet if the bot is doing it, it's harassment. I don't see the difference. A logged-in user's username appears in the user list whether the bot calls them out or not, so they can still be pinged. As a culture, the Root Access regulars (and even the irregulars!) do not ordinarily call out people who join unless they first choose to speak. The bot doesn't encourage people to call out new users. It's only meant to provide them some basic information, and then it shuts up and never talks to them again. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:37 | comment | added | allquixotic | @Gilles SE already said they won't implement it on their side, and they didn't provide a satisfying reason why. This entire situation is specifically because they said, not only do they not want to implement it, but they don't want anyone else implementing it, either. Which, to be perfectly honest, is fair enough; they own the site. That is the only reason I complied with their request. It's not like they provided an actual reason for their decision, but I really had no other choice. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:34 | comment | added | allquixotic | It's not like we welcome them every time they join the room, or ping them continuously with advertisements or links to questions, or have 10 bots doing it, or anything like that. One. Singular. Message. And to be honest, we wouldn't have it if we felt that users didn't need it. Trust me, from the questions we got (before the bot existed), we need it. "Hi, can I ask a question?" Now we get "Thanks @ChatBotJohnCavil :)" followed by their question. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:34 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @allquixotic This argument could hold water if it was Stack Exchange sending the message, and the message was private. Having a third party harass a user publicly is completely different. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:32 | comment | added | allquixotic | @Gilles Uh, last time I made a Gmail account, and a Yahoo account, and a Hotmail account, I distinctly recall having a welcoming message in my inbox from the email provider themselves saying, effectively, welcome, with some link to terms of service, link to a page advertising features, etc. I can't recall a popular email provider that just creates an empty inbox with no messages. This is exactly like that one-time email when you make a new Gmail account. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:32 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @Dave It's only marginally less creepy, and fails its supposed objective. Don't ping users blindly. Tailor your advice to their behavior. Most users don't want or need handholding. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:31 | comment | added | allquixotic | But it's not like I have any experience in this whatsoever; I only help people in IRC channels for various free software projects, where there are often auto-greeter bots in addition to the channel topic. Whenever an issue like this was discussed there, the general consensus is that the bots do more good than harm, and the tiny minority that might be scared by receiving an unsolicited message is outweighed by the majority who read that message and are emboldened to go ahead and ask their question, or even say "Hi". | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:31 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @allquixotic Chat is one thing. A bot is another thing. It's like when I create an email account: I expect to exchange emails with people. I even expect to receive mails from mailing lists that I subscribe to. I don't expect to receive mails offering me to enlarge parts of my body. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:30 | comment | added | Dave |
@Gilles what if the bot pinged the user upon their first message rather than first joining the room ? It's a decent compromise? It could say "I see you are new here, have some information:" etc
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| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:27 | comment | added | allquixotic | I don't even.... what is this? Is this a joke? "Unsuspecting users"? What, exactly, do you think a typical user's expectation is when they enter a chat room? Are they expecting to view a static web page with no interactivity? That's pretty much what they'll see if they aren't logged in. But if they are logged in, then presumably they are at least aware of what the site is, and aware that "if I click this link, I'll enter some kind of chat room where I can talk to people". I'm having a hard time imagining a poor, unsuspecting, logged-in user clicking chat and being surprised by ... chat? | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:17 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @allquixotic Have you read my answer at all? It's not what the bot is saying. It's the fact that the bot is addressing unsuspecting users. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:15 | comment | added | allquixotic | @Gilles It's unfriendly to welcome someone? Oooooookay. You really do come from another planet. If it's the "please don't ask to ask" part that throws you off, you should be aware that it takes me about 30 seconds to change that text, and I even asked a meta question soliciting opinions on what to change it to, but I don't see your participation there. What could I have changed the text to say that would satisfy you? | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:07 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @allquixotic Your bot is making the chatroom unfriendly to newcomers. So maybe you've established a clique who happens to like it. That's fine on a room of your own, but not appropriate for the main room of a site. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:06 | comment | added | allquixotic | Also, the bot was not banned, it was suspended. I performed the adjustment requested by SE and the bot was un-suspended. You claim, "It's bad enough when people do that manually" -- you must live in an entirely different world than most people if you think that someone saying "Hi" or "Welcome!" to a user appearing on the user list is in any way objectionable. If you want to remain anonymous and be left alone, log out or use Incognito Mode in your browser. Sheesh. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:06 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @Dave 10 people pinging a welcome message is also pretty creepy. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 23:05 | comment | added | allquixotic | @Gilles One non-recurring message being sent to you welcoming you and informing you of the rules the first time you visit a chat room (and not subsequent times) is "assaulting" users? This is the strawman. You are providing absolutely no reason why you think that this is "spam". Spam is defined as repeated messages. SU is a popular site, and we get maybe one of these auto-greetings displayed in our chat per day, because we only get maybe one or two new unique users per day. Your hyperbole is ridiculous, insulting, and groundless. I wish I could downvote something more than once.. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:51 | comment | added | Dave | Its difficult to come up with a solution that fits all, with out understanding other people's perspectives specially when i don't fully understand their perspective. I really don't understand the difference from lets say, 10 people pinging a welcome message which would not be assaulting, compared to if its 1 bot? 10 pings is deffinately overwhelming in comparison. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:49 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @Dave This is a strawman argument. If you plaster posters for <political cause I agree with> over my windows, that's vandalism, just as much as if the posters were for <political cause I disagree with>. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:31 | comment | added | Dave | They cannot claim "ignorance" on the rules if the bot informs them of the rules.. the same way registration pages make you agree to website rules.. its a good thing. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:29 | comment | added | John Dvorak | @ChrisF then what do you suggest? The greeting is useful in our room. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:29 | comment | added | ChrisF | @JanDvorak - not really. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:28 | comment | added | Dave | @Gilles so telling some one the rules of the chat with a bot is harmful ... in what way ? Doesn't make sense to me. Please explain this as i am not understanding =/ | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:27 | comment | added | John Dvorak | @ChrisF hmm... would a disclaimer in the greeting message solve the appears-to-be-official issue? | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:27 | comment | added | Benjamin Gruenbaum | @MadScientist users don't have to, and are not expected to reply to that ping. All a ping does is color the text in a different color to bring their attention to it. They can still just lurk and you still get notification when they join/leave on the side - it's just less explicit and not informative to the user who joined. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:27 | comment | added | Josh | I want to upvote you for the thought that bot should never automatically greet people. But I want to downvote you for the suggestion that real humans shouldn't greet each other in chat. So +/-0 | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:26 | comment | added | ChrisF | @jan One of the objections is that because it greets new users it appears to be an official SE thing - which it isn't. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:26 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @Dave Yes, it is harmful. I don't care how much you like it, it's harmful for all the innocents who get pinged. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:26 | comment | added | Mad Scientist | @ThiefMaster I personally don't like it if users adress a new chat user before they talked on their own. Some users just want to lurk, and some want to talk, the decision on the level of interaction should be left to the user. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:25 | comment | added | John Dvorak | This might be true for a room as big as the main room for SU, but it works pretty well and does a lot of service in smaller rooms like the one the bot originated in | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:25 | comment | added | Dave | Its not a harmful ping if it says welcome - read the rules... its similiar to being told to agree to the TOS. Once you have been told to read the rules, breaking the rules is not really acceptable after that. | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:24 | comment | added | ThiefMaster | A single ping from a bot is not worse than multiple pings from users welcoming user who never joined the room before... | |
| Nov 12, 2013 at 22:21 | history | answered | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | CC BY-SA 3.0 |