Correct way to handle users requesting scripts/formulae?

Question

I'm still trying to work out the best way to handle questions where a user is requesting an Excel formula, VBA, a batch file etc. It seems the general consensus is to request the user to include what they have tried and what hasn't worked, so we can help them tweak it to do so.

However, this seems like a frustrating situation for the person asking the question. I realise that there are situations where people are clearly just saying 'I want a script to do this, gimme gimme gimme', but for a lot of users it seems they legitimately just don't know where to start.

One example is here, where I started creating an answer, went away, came back to it and noticed the comments stating we aren't a script writing service (which I completely agree with for a lot of cases).

However, at this point, I'd pretty much already finished the answer and so submitted it. I realise this creates a conflict of interests and potentially propagates incorrect behaviour in asking a question, perhaps I shouldn't have started answering it (hence this question).

My assumption is that, if they knew where to start or what to try, they probably wouldn't be asking the question in the first place. Now, knowing what formulas can be used to do this, it is a few minutes work, if that, for me to put them on the right track.

Another one that I've tried to help with is this - which again, they know what they want, they perhaps worded it badly with the statement

Would anyone please rewrite my script with those updates.

But when it's only 4 lines of a batch, plus some explanation which took me barely minutes to adapt for them, they knew what it should do, just not how to do it. How should this be handled?

To summarise my question - How do we decide which questions are legitimately just needing a nudge in the right direction, and how do we handle those cases properly?

Once again, I don't want to cause conflicts of interest here, I understand that we don't want to write entire scripts for people who clearly just don't want to take the time to learn, but some advice on what people think the best course of action is would be appreciated.

Answer 1

In one of my earliest Meta posts, I said something similar to Ben's opening paragraph. I was reminded that an "enthusiast" can be a beginner, and beginner questions are welcome here.

Yes, the site is more oriented to solving specific problems than providing a general education, and yes, many general education questions are too broad. But there's a gray area between lazy OP and confused newbie where we should act constructively to help the OP refine the question rather than shut them down.

Some users have too fast of a reflex on the "we are not a script writing service" comment. It's appropriate when somebody asks an elementary question that shows no research effort. However, many of these questions involve a problem or twist for which a basic search isn't likely to yield a solution, or a beginner who either legitimately doesn't know where to start or can't understand the research he's found. IMHO, way too many of the "not a script writing" comments are just inappropriate.

They have unintended consequences that are harmful to contributors as well as the questioner. A perfect example: Adding or Replacing text within hyperlinks. The question needed some improvement and there is no indication of what research the OP might have done. However, it wasn't about something super-fundamental, and it's easy to see where the OP's thought process wasn't headed in a direction where their simple Google search would likely yield a solution.

Engineer Toast and I each contributed an answer that would at least get the OP on the right track. However, that was after another user left a "we are not a script writing service" comment that told the OP to go play with it on his own and come back if he got stuck. It was a relatively new user who likely took his cue from the rampant postings of that comment by a few high-rep users.

Guess what? The OP was told he wouldn't get an answer until he jumped a hurdle and he didn't come back. We don't know if he solved his problem, but two contributors wasted their time trying to help.

The contributor side of the issue is Jonno's point:

I realise this creates a conflict of interests and potentially propagates incorrect behaviour in asking a question, perhaps I shouldn't have started answering it.

The only time that premise would apply is if the question is obviously off-topic and someone (usually a newbie), posts a low quality answer before it's closed, which could get upvoted by another newbie, thereby delaying deletion of the question once it's closed.

A poorly written question is hard to answer well, but if it is on-topic and someone can contribute a quality, helpful answer, they should not withhold the answer on the basis that the OP hasn't yet described their research.

Answer 2

I think we need to differentiate between "gimme the codez" type questions, and one where the user has a clear problem definition.

And well, it comes back to an issue I have with canned comments. I personally (non modhattedly) think "This is not a code writing service" seems a bit harsh. (My modhat gives me a +5 closehammer... so modhattedly I'd just close bad questions appropriately.)

If the question is terrible, back it up with a closevote. If the question is borderline, maybe try to fix up the language and prod with some comments.

In short, if a comment isn't going to actually improve the question anyway it's rather pointless. And well, saying this is not a code writing service dosen't help. Simply vote to close appropriately and move on, or try to get more information from the user on what he's tried or what he needs to do.

In fixer's example, it's not a terrible question - there's a pretty clear problem definition and the comment results in no practical improvement of the question. If the OP knew what to do with the macro recorder he would have done it. A better idea would have been to post an answer anyway based on that. Not everyone has the same skills/problem domain.

I've tried to fix up example Jonno's given in the comments - by focusing on what the OP needs "I need to do an if else loop, but I am unsure how to do it" and mercilessly removing whatever's not needed. It still feels like a X Y problem to me, but that's a whole different stinky dog treat.

So, while I do appreciate the risk of the broken window syndrome, maybe we can use our edit/close/comment powers appropriately rather than posting a short, rather harsh comment.

Answer 3

Stack Exchange is not a good format for beginner "help me learn how to do this" questions. I'm sure there's a place for such questions, but Super User isn't it. (Remember, Stack Exchange is about professional or enthusiast questions/problems.)

Questions asking for scripts don't really help anybody but the original poster, and a few years ago would have been closed as Too Localized. Nowadays, the preferred reason is Too Broad, since boatloads of different scripts could accomplish the same thing. Downvoting is appropriate for unresearched/uninteresting questions even if they shouldn't be closed. Again, there's a place for such things, but to keep the quality and usefulness of this place up, we don't accept them.

There's also the issue of troubleshooting which you alluded to. Let's see what Stack Overflow has to say about that:

Questions seeking debugging help ("why isn't this code working?") must include the desired behavior, a specific problem or error and the shortest code necessary to reproduce it in the question itself. Questions without a clear problem statement are not useful to other readers. See: How to create a Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable example.

If the original poster hasn't tried or done any research ("not working plz fix"), the question is at best worthy of downvotes and probably should be closed as Too Broad, since teaching core concepts is not a task suited to specific Q&A like we do here. Therefore, such questions should include what was tried, what resulted, and what was expected.

If the question is simple and understandable but a little misguided, it'd be great if you could fix it up via editing and then answer it. (We even have a three-tier series of badges for it: Explainer → Refiner → Illuminator.) Demolishing it via close votes is acceptable if it's not OK in the current form, but there's certainly nothing wrong with bringing it back in-scope if possible. Since the point of Q&A is mostly the A, we love useful, canonical, quality answers even when the question was basic or initially dubious.

Thanks for asking how to keep Super User's quality high!

Answer 4

I think beginner’s questions can be very useful though. I am a professional developer but if any potential employer saw my SE search history it would be down-right embarrassing because for trivial tasks which you haven't memorised, it's almost always easier to search for examples of the particular case where to find the correct syntax to use than it is to read a manual page, to try to remember what you did last time, or to keep on trying different things in the hope one will stick.

The number of times I've had to search for the correct syntax to use in a bash for loop for example...